Conservative Life

[Bilbo Baggins]

I can feel the loathing through my screen. Though I strongly disagree, I don't think much will be accomplished by slugging through Round 2 of Socialism vs Capitalism. Our viewpoints are polar opposites, and it would require more than an internet forum debate to change our minds. I will chip away at it though.

EDIT: I feel I should clarify this. I do believe that someone's mind can be changed through rational debate, but I don't think a battle over the core tenets of each ideology is the way to go. Debate over issues and practical examples, as opposed to theory, is likely to be more productive in this case.

[Madcowhunter]

EDIT: I feel I should clarify this. I do believe that someone's mind can be changed through rational debate, but I don't think a battle over the core tenets of each ideology is the way to go. Debate over issues and practical examples, as opposed to theory, is likely to be more productive in this case.

For what purpose?

Why should I subordinate morality to pragmatism? Anything can be manipulated to a point where it will "work" for certain scenarios; but the one thing that can never be altered is whether it is right or wrong. Choosing a pragmatic approach over a moral approach is for the moral coward.

[Bilbo Baggins]

I do not suggest that you betray your morals. However, an argument based on the key theoretical elements of our beliefs is unlikely to sway each of us. An illustration of these theories through practical examples (e.g. universal healthcare vs market healthcare examples throughout the world) will probably be more productive, as it tests the worthiness of the theory in a real-life setting.

Obviously there will be disputes over whether something has 'worked' or not (e.g. Healthcare in Canada - conservatives see it as a dismal failure, liberals a sign of the inherent superiority of public healthcare systems), but the same is true for theory. However, real-life examples have a more personal and direct impact, as it is theory at work, and so the arguments behind them are more convincing.

[Madcowhunter]

Very well. If you like, we can discuss practicality.

However, since I subordinate pragmatism to morality, the chances of convincing me to turn socialist are less likely.

EDIT: Don't expect this to be a "quick" thing; I have less time to chat over the week, and since we are discussing pragmatism, it may take longer to respond in cases where I need to compile data.

[Bilbo Baggins]

Haha . I'm not expecting you to instantly bombard me with examples of the successes of libertarian thinking. I'm just making the comment that purely theoretical debate will probably be unproductive as we have heard each others arguments many times before. I think that it would be better to debate on issues that come up naturally. However, I'm still more than happy to discuss theory, I just don't want to get into another mammoth back-and-forth like the one at CC (which though fun, was time-consuming to say the least) where we end up thinking exactly what we did at the beginning.