Re: Please, all of you read this!!!

[KSigMason]

One book and you are convinced? That shows me a person who is too easily swayed by a conviction you hope to be true.

No truer words have ever been said.

[iluvfreebeer]

One book and you are convinced? That shows me a person who is too easily swayed by a conviction you hope to be true.

No truer words have ever been said.

Umm, I'm not trying to be a dick.
But, isn't The Bible "one book"?
Yes I know that technically it is many books written over many years. But it is basically one book.


The point I'm doing a poor job of making is this:
People of faith will not be swayed away from their faith by the writings of mortal man. And those that expect people of faith to be swayed are fools because they obviously don't understand faith.

[Bilbo Baggins]

People of faith will not be swayed away from their faith by the writings of mortal man. And those that expect people of faith to be swayed are fools because they obviously don't understand faith.

Why is it that in our normal everyday lives we nearly always need facts to convince us of the validity of an argument, but when it comes to religion so many people just act and believe without any real proof? Why is religion exempt from scientific and rational investigation? A lot of people only follow a religion because thats how they were raised and they know nothing else. You should at least read Dawkins book to understand how the other side thinks (largely, he's a bit more scathing than me), even if you don't think you will be convinced.

[iluvfreebeer]

People of faith will not be swayed away from their faith by the writings of mortal man. And those that expect people of faith to be swayed are fools because they obviously don't understand faith.

Why is it that in our normal everyday lives we nearly always need facts to convince us of the validity of an argument, but when it comes to religion so many people just act and believe without any real proof? Why is religion exempt from scientific and rational investigation? A lot of people only follow a religion because thats how they were raised and they know nothing else. You should at least read Dawkins book to understand how the other side thinks (largely, he's a bit more scathing than me), even if you don't think you will be convinced.

You still don't get it.
And I guess you never will.

[KSigMason]

One book and you are convinced? That shows me a person who is too easily swayed by a conviction you hope to be true.

No truer words have ever been said.

Umm, I'm not trying to be a dick.
But, isn't The Bible "one book"?
Yes I know that technically it is many books written over many years. But it is basically one book.


The point I'm doing a poor job of making is this:
People of faith will not be swayed away from their faith by the writings of mortal man. And those that expect people of faith to be swayed are fools because they obviously don't understand faith.

Touche

[Popov]

It's called Shakat.


And diplomacy doesn't work with savage hateful dogs like muslims.
But they understand POWER.

Zakat...

and i fail to grasp how paying for charitable works and giving money to the poor (because that is what zakat is destined for) funds terrorism,
if some mosque leaders mislead their parish and give money from the zakat to terrorists that's not the parishoners fault

if a catholic church leader used part of the tithe to pay for child pornography that's on him, not on the people that paid the church, thinking that the money would go to upkeep and charitable works

you shouldn't throw away a whole bushel because of one bad apple

[iluvfreebeer]

It's called Shakat.


And diplomacy doesn't work with savage hateful dogs like muslims.
But they understand POWER.

Zakat...

and i fail to grasp how paying for charitable works and giving money to the poor (because that is what zakat is destined for) funds terrorism,
if some mosque leaders mislead their parish and give money from the zakat to terrorists that's not the parishoners fault

if a catholic church leader used part of the tithe to pay for child pornography that's on him, not on the people that paid the church, thinking that the money would go to upkeep and charitable works

you shouldn't throw away a whole bushel because of one bad apple

ALL zakat gets funneled through Riyadh and a good portion of that money is funneled off to fund AQ, JI, and other islamofascist groups.

[Popov]

.... meh, yeah ok but still, i think you're connecting too many dots here, you can't for example blame an individual for his country's war crimes because he pays taxes

[Buzzy]

Is a person a Christian if he refuses to follow the commandments and the teachings of Jesus?

Is a person a Muslim if he refuses to follow the Koran, including Jihad?

Or are we just talking attendance in church here?

There really aren't any moderate "Good" Muslims. If there were then we would be seeing the Islamic world rise up and crush the Islamofascist movements, they couldn't exist, they wouldn't exist. Zackat has been going to the Islamofascists for ages and to some extent it is no different than Catholics allowing pedophile Priests to keep preying on their own children. Maybe the same sense of denial exists in both Islam and the Catholic church but the price for reforming the Catholic Church is no longer beheading. Try to reform Islam and tell me how that works out for you.

And yes we do hold not only "taxpayers" but all citizens and every person in a country responsible to some extent for the deeds and misdeeds of that nations government. We couldn't wage war if that was not true, despite the "modern" trend in precision munitions. Islam held nearly 3k people responsible for their grievances against the US on 9/11/2001 and precious few had anything to do with the government.

[iluvfreebeer]

.... meh, yeah ok but still, i think you're connecting too many dots here, you can't for example blame an individual for his country's war crimes because he pays taxes

If you don't pay lawful taxes you'll get put in jail.

If you don't pay zakat and don't support islamofascism you may get to go to heaven.

[Popov]

Is a person a Muslim if he refuses to follow the Koran, including Jihad?

Just vis a vis this point - If you study Islam a bit, you'll discover that the most important part of the idea of jihad is the struggle with oneself - it is first and foremost the struggle against your own personal demons, the fight against sin etc. holy war plays a much smaller part in that concept, and just because extremists are blowing it out of proportion doesn't mean all muslims view it in the same way.

[iluvfreebeer]

Is a person a Muslim if he refuses to follow the Koran, including Jihad?

Just vis a vis this point - If you study Islam a bit, you'll discover that the most important part of the idea of jihad is the struggle with oneself - it is first and foremost the struggle against your own personal demons, the fight against sin etc. holy war plays a much smaller part in that concept, and just because extremists are blowing it out of proportion doesn't mean all muslims view it in the same way.

Until those allegedly non-extremist musllims take up arms and kill all the extremists I will continue to count them as one and the same.

[Southern_Solider75]

People of faith will not be swayed away from their faith by the writings of mortal man. And those that expect people of faith to be swayed are fools because they obviously don't understand faith.

Why is it that in our normal everyday lives we nearly always need facts to convince us of the validity of an argument, but when it comes to religion so many people just act and believe without any real proof? Why is religion exempt from scientific and rational investigation? A lot of people only follow a religion because thats how they were raised and they know nothing else. You should at least read Dawkins book to understand how the other side thinks (largely, he's a bit more scathing than me), even if you don't think you will be convinced.

It is called living on faith.I look up in the sky and see the beautiful heavens, the stars and moon and stand in awe of it all. How can you say there is no GOD? Look at our DNA, A very detailed plan on such a small , minute thing. All this from the BIG BANG THEROY? It is not of fear that I turn to GOD and beleive but in awe that i look to him. It is not a religion but a relationship with HIM.I didn't come from no ape, nor some slime that oozed out onto land. Charles Darwin's theroy has several holes in it, even he admitted it. It was proven that the BIBLE is the most true historical facts in one book. I am not here to "push" anyone to beleive what I beleive, because Jesus didn't do that, but just had to say what I had to say.

[Buzzy]

Is a person a Muslim if he refuses to follow the Koran, including Jihad?

Just vis a vis this point - If you study Islam a bit, you'll discover that the most important part of the idea of jihad is the struggle with oneself - it is first and foremost the struggle against your own personal demons, the fight against sin etc. holy war plays a much smaller part in that concept, and just because extremists are blowing it out of proportion doesn't mean all Muslims view it in the same way.

C'mon Popov, I lived in Islamic nations for a good chunk of the 1980's and honestly the "inner struggle" stuff is BS that I only heard after those peace loving Muslims flew their planes into the twin towers killing 3k innocent people. Jihad has always and will always mean warfare against non believers and those Muslims who don't believe exactly as your own sect does. Don't fall victim to their propaganda, read the Quran and notice that when Muhammad waged "jihad" against the people of Medina he wasn't engaged in any inner struggle he was conducting warfare against people who refused to join his newly made up religion.

[Bilbo Baggins]

Its been a while since I properly read this thread so forgive my belated reply.

Charles Darwin's theroy has several holes in it, even he admitted it.

So because his theory isn't 100%, by default it must have been God who created everything? Those holes aren't unsolveable mysteries, they just haven't been cleared up yet. Its called the progression of science, not everything just falls in to place. Its a lot more believeable than some dude in the sky mixing potions and creating animals & humans.

It was proven that the BIBLE is the most true historical facts in one book.

Proven by who? I studied Classical Mythology which incorporated Bible stories, and I can tell you now that the Bible is nothing more than a collection of old pagan mythologies. Yes, some of the people in the Bible did exist, and who knows, maybe there was a religious leader called Jesus; but he didn't walk on water, he didn't raise the dead, and his old man does not rule the universe.