Voters reject Chavez referednum

[Bilbo Baggins]

Well well well, the great dictator - the one who you guys keep saying is rigging elections - is defeated by a democratic process (only just). Now I was worried about some of his proposed reforms but was willing to let the people decide, and it seems they have. The US could learn a lesson about democracy from Venezuela (ohh low blow).



CARACAS, Venezuela (CNN) -- Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez's detractors danced in the streets Monday after voters shot down a referendum that would have allowed the firebrand leftist to seek re-election indefinitely and tightened socialism's grip on his oil-rich nation.

In Caracas, Valencia, Maracaibo and other major cities, large crowds spilled into the streets, shouting, chanting, clapping and waving flags. One man carried a sign proclaiming, "Vota No," which by Monday was more an exclamation than an imperative after voters the day before dismissed 69 proposed amendments to Venezuela's 1999 constitution.

Chavez said Monday he accepted the vote, calling the slim margin of victory -- 51 percent to 49 percent, according to early reports -- a "photo finish."

The vote represented a rare poll defeat for Chavez, who has generally enjoyed popular support among the lower classes. Among the exceptions: a bitter national strike, an abortive coup against him in 2002 and a 2004 attempt to recall him as president, a vote he easily survived.

Many of Monday's revelers were university students who had worked doggedly to defeat the proposals. They burst into singing the national anthem upon hearing news that their efforts paid off.

"This is not a moment only for students; it is for the whole country," student Juan Andres Mejia said. "It's time for us to start walking the same path to walking together, and I think this day could be the start of a new republic of a new Venezuela."

In Washington, the White House applauded the results of the vote.

"We congratulate the people of Venezuela on their vote and their continued desire to live in freedom and democracy," said National Security Council spokesman Gordon Johndroe.

In what he called a talk "from my heart," Chavez said the election results proved Venezuelan democracy was maturing, a sentiment echoed by Tibisay Lucena, president of the National Electoral Council.

Thanking his opponents, Chavez told a roomful of supporters and journalists, "Now Venezuelans should have faith in our institutions."

However, Chavez promised to continue his pursuit of the defeated proposals.

"Not a single comma of this proposal will be withdrawn," he said, holding up a small red book containing the text of the proposed changes. "I will continue proposing this to the Venezuelan people. The proposal is alive, not dead."

One of the more controversial proposed amendments would have abolished term limits, allowing Chavez to hold office indefinitely as long as he is re-elected.

The 53-year-old Venezuelan president, who was elected in 1998 as the country's youngest-ever president, has twice been re-elected by large margins. However, the present law prohibits Chavez from seeking re-election when his term ends in 2012.

Another amendment on the ballot would have pushed the country more toward socialism. Chavez has said he should have full authority over the autonomous Central Bank as well as the nation's economic policy. These measures, Chavez has said, are necessary to move the economy toward socialism.

Since winning a second six-year term in December, Chavez has promised to push forward with his particular brand of socialism and his "Bolivarian Revolution."

Chavez has used skyrocketing oil revenues, which reportedly account for about 90 percent of the nation's export earnings, to garner support in the country's poorer neighborhoods.

In Venezuela, the poor receive free health care and education, much like in Cuba, which is under the rule of Chavez's friend and mentor, President Fidel Castro.

Chavez's opponents say he has undercut Venezuela's democracy by systematically concentrating power in his own hands.

In the last year, Chavez has nationalized oil, telephone and power companies and refused to renew the broadcast license for RCTV, an independent open-air television station that had been broadcasting for 53 years.

The Venezuelan government later threatened to investigate broadcasters it said were inciting the public to violence over the decision. RCTV returned as a cable and satellite broadcaster in July.

On Friday, Chavez threatened to take independent Venezuelan network Globovision off the air if it broadcast partial results of the Sunday referendum.

Chavez, a former paratrooper, also routinely lambastes the United States, which has had thin diplomatic but close economic ties with Venezuela. The United States is Venezuela's top oil customer, buying about 1 million barrels a day, and is one of the few countries that can refine its low-quality crude.

[Buzzy]

Chavez and every other politician on the face of the Earth are walking billboards for term limits.

Honestly I'm surprised that Chavez didn't declare martial law when he lost but then again he still has time to push his "reforms" through.

[Popov]

this isn't pakistan

he doesn't have that kind of power... yet

[submarinepainter]

he's not done ... these tyrants do not just except the votes

[Buzzy]

I'll put it this way. Bush shouldn't have this kind of power. Putin shouldn't have this kind of power. And Chavez shouldn't have this kind of power. I don't trust any of them, politicians that is. Even if they're honest going in they need term limits to keep them honest.

[Bilbo Baggins]

I'll put it this way. Bush shouldn't have this kind of power. Putin shouldn't have this kind of power. And Chavez shouldn't have this kind of power. I don't trust any of them, politicians that is. Even if they're honest going in they need term limits to keep them honest.

I agree, I had a problem with the term limits request. He's said he isn't going to alter his proposed reforms, but I still hope he drops this.

[Buzzy]

I'm thinking that Chavez has just about peaked. The number of people jailed for disagreeing with him is rising and even with those threats he lost this vote. He'll try to foist off some drama to rally the people behind him, claim that the CIA is planning to have him killed or some such crap, but everyone can see the chink in his armor, smell his blood in the water, and he'll never win his reforms now. A tyrant is a tyrant no matter which way they lean and Chavez is a small minded big ego bully, exactly the kind of person that should never get put into power.

[Popov]

yeah i think you're right, he pushed his crap way too far, maybe if he had laid off the indoctrination and allowed for democratic processes to persist.. ah whatever, in any case if this is as big as it's hyped up to be we can already start talking about what's next for Venezuela

[iluvfreebeer]

Bilbo, the way you stated it, it sounds as if you're upset that Chavez wasn't able to rig the elections to maintain and grow more socialist dictator power.

[Bilbo Baggins]

I'm thinking that Chavez has just about peaked. The number of people jailed for disagreeing with him is rising and even with those threats he lost this vote. He'll try to foist off some drama to rally the people behind him, claim that the CIA is planning to have him killed or some such crap, but everyone can see the chink in his armor, smell his blood in the water, and he'll never win his reforms now. A tyrant is a tyrant no matter which way they lean and Chavez is a small minded big ego bully, exactly the kind of person that should never get put into power.

I dunno if he's peaked, the people are still behind him over-whelmingly, but they could recognise some of the dangers of giving him all this power. I wouldn't be suprised if the CIA was trying to kill him, or at least incite a rebellion (its what the US always does after all). Just have to wait and see how things go.

Bilbo, the way you stated it, it sounds as if you're upset that Chavez wasn't able to rig the elections to maintain and grow more socialist dictator

As I have already stated many times, I had problems with his reforms as well, and was opposed to their passing. I merely brought this up as everyone was saying he was a dictator and rigged elections. Well I think we can see that is not true. A democratically elected socialist leader I'm all for; not a dictator.

[Popov]

he's a democratically elected leader who's abusing his power in an effort to become a dictator, that's actually how dictators come to power a lot of the time - take practically any African country for example - Zimbabwe for example - the guy promised freedom and democracy and now it's one of the most oppressive, corrupt and utterly useless (vis a vis the country's development) systems in the world.

[Bilbo Baggins]

he's a democratically elected leader who's abusing his power in an effort to become a dictator,

There is a danger of that, but I'm willing to give him some time to see what his real motives are. The bias of the world press shows him as an aspiring dictator, but its not yet clear to whether he wants total, unchallengeable power yet. He could still be democratically removed from office even if his reforms had passed.

[Buzzy]

The true power in any nation should reside in "WE THE PEOPLE" and not in any politician or governmental flunky. We'll see what Chavez is made of now that he got his nose bloodied by "We The People".